What is your earliest memory of money?
When I was a teenager, weave-on fixing had just emerged, and I knew how to make basic hairstyles. Once, I was home on holiday from boarding school, and my mum was off to the salon to get a weave-on fixed. She says, ‘Gbemi, you can do this. You know, it’s not that difficult’.
I was reluctant because I feared I wouldn’t do it well. But I did anyway, and when we were done, she asked me to get her purse. I was confused, but I went to get it. She paid me the equivalent of what she would have paid the salon.
How did this make you feel?
I was excited to get paid. At the same time, I didn’t want her to pay me or I didn’t think she needed to. But she insisted and said, “If you have skills, capacity, and know how to do something people need, you can earn money from it.” I didn’t understand it then, but that singular act planted a seed in me and has shaped my money-making habits and decisions thirty-something years later.
I think a lot of mothers taught their daughters money-making skills. It’s nice that your earliest money-making memory comes with the feeling of joy. So, what money beliefs did you grow up with as a young girl?
The most important thing will probably be to have your own. Growing up and watching my mum step up financially when the family got into trouble shaped my views. One event particularly changed things.
Can you tell us what happened?
One day, we were stopped by the police while driving, and my mum slapped the police officer because he was really rude to my dad.
Ah! Police?
Yes o. My mum was very beautiful and had a strong personality, which made my dad uncomfortable sometimes. Anyway, my dad was upset with her, and this and many more incidents became the catalyst that made my father ask my mum to become a stay-at-home mum, and she agreed.
I think she was also facing some ethical dilemma at the time. She worked as a beer distributor for Nigerian Breweries and ran a truck hauling company with my father. She had just given her life to Christ, so she was conflicted. It was like, how can a born-again Christian be selling alcohol?
How did this work out for the family, and did your mum enjoy it?
I don’t know if she enjoyed it, but we suffered a lot. My father’s business was doing well then, but a series of unfortunate events happened, and things went south. My father had an accident and had issues with his leg; then we got robbed, and he got shot in his other leg, so his capacity and things got really hard. We didn’t just suffer; we became very poor.
How did you guys come back from that?
My mother stepped up and handled things. She went to fashion school and became a tailor, and things just started getting better. But I watched this happen in real time and saw that if you give up your capacity to earn, especially for a man, you will suffer.
Did this affect how you handled romantic relationships?
Not really. I was okay with them. But when my husband started talking about us getting married, I asked him if he wanted to marry a woman he would tell not to work, and if that was what he wanted, I told him I was the wrong person for him. But I’ve always made money for as long as I can remember. If there’s been a gap in my earning capacity, it’s because I was increasing my capacity to earn, because, like my mum told me, always increase your capacity to earn so you can have options in this life.
What do you think a woman needs to earn or own for you to consider them financially secure?
I think for me, it would have to be a mindset. Women need to think of financial autonomy as non-negotiable. A woman must have a very clear belief in her position in life as a fully autonomous agent and person who can or may function in other roles. See yourself as a person first, whose responsibility it is to earn. That mindset will now shape other things, such as her earning capacity. If she doesn’t have the mindset, nothing else matters.
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In your experience, what’s the link between money and confidence?
Money gives you options, and you always want to have those. I’m not talking about how much you have because that will vary. Sometimes you don’t have much money, but you are still confident; sometimes we’re going through seasons. Confidence has to be innate, so you can rewrite the course of your life if things get taken away from you.
How has your relationship with money evolved as your platform has grown
I’ve become brazy asking for what I’m worth. I’ve been wealthy, poor and comfortable. Because of that low season, I’ve become empathetic towards people who sometimes can’t afford my services. So I offer pro bono services and sometimes reduce my charges.
The downside to this is that I wasn’t charging as much as I should because I was constantly thinking about people who couldn’t afford my service, so I had to distinguish between wanting to help people and wanting to charge as much as I think I deserve. But I can say my relationship with money has changed because I’m bolder and more audacious, because I have worked on my money mindset and limitations that held me back.
You’ve worked extensively as a coach, so have you ever been punished for being financially bold as a woman in business?
Yes, I have. I get a lot of requests from different people. Once, a law firm reached out to me to get my perspective as a mental health specialist. In one of the meetings, I said, “We never talked about how you will reward me for my time.”, and they looked at me like they were shocked. I was confused because I was expecting them to bring it up. But they didn’t pay me. I sent my invoice afterwards, and they still haven’t paid me. So, I felt like I was punished for being asked to get paid to help their client who was an American-Nigerian woman. They probably expected some type of solidarity on my end. But ever since then, I have led business discussions with my invoice.
Interesting, do you think sometimes women feel shame when asking for money they deserve?
Yes, I think so. I think the idea that we need to ask or demand money may affect how we feel about it, especially depending on our money story. Like the law firm that reached out to me, I found out they used my expertise in their report, but they made me feel bad for asking. They expected me to be grateful for my services, which I found disrespectful. Letting go and divesting from the shame of asking for what you’re worth is something every woman will learn as we grow. It’s like, why should you be charging so much if you want to help people? It is one that we might come across often as women. But charge what you’re worth and don’t let people’s ideas get in the way. Sometimes people say charge like a man, but I disagree with that. I charge like the badass woman that I am.
How would you advise navigating this in the corporate world, with salary negotiations, for example?
Regarding the corporate world, it’s helpful to speak to others instead of moving without knowledge. If you don’t find the prevailing number, what you think will be enough might be too small, but it’s important to ask. The worst you can get is no. I remember one time a company reached out to me to provide services, and my sister and I came up with a number. I remember thinking, “What if this is not a good enough number?”
So, I reached out to the contact person off record and asked for a recommendation, and this person said a number that was six times what I asked for in USD. I was shocked, but I played it cool and asked if that was the best they could do, and the person confirmed the budget but asked me to go higher, so we could come down to the original budget.
What would you say to the woman who is doing everything right, but feels like wealth is out of reach?
I would advise being kind and gentle with yourself as you work through the reality of your situation. I know that it might not look like it now, but it will improve. You can take the displeasure you feel and turn it into something else. You can always change things. I used to be a fashion designer, but I moved to America and changed my major three times — from fashion merchandising to psychology, social work, and behavioural science.
You can be many things in life. I still want to be an alaga. Even in America, I’ve been an MC. If you don’t like where you are financially, ask yourself what you want to do and where you want to be and think of how to get there. Get rid of the mindset that you can’t be many things in this life; it will keep you from feeling stuck. Lead with empathy as well.
Thank you for that. So, what are three money habits you swear by?
The first one will be to pay yourself first, because responsibilities will always come. This brings me to my second one, and that’s giving. People pray that someone is the answer to their prayers, but I like the level of being the answer to someone’s prayers. So, you become a solution for people. I also think of using money as a tool to solve problems for you. For example, if you don’t like to clean, pay someone to do it for you. A bonus one would be to think of yourself as a money magnet. As in, money is flowing and you’re attracting it.
What is one mistake that taught you your biggest money lesson?
Crypto! I’ve realised I don’t have expertise in everything, and when I dabble outside my area of expertise, I get in trouble. Now I pay someone to manage my money for me.
What’s one mindset shift you want women to have?
Financial autonomy is non-negotiable? Women need to know that they can be rich themselves, and don’t just want to marry a rich man. God loves you and has great plans for you, too. You can be the Oga herself, not just the Oga’s wife.
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